{"id":3146,"date":"2017-02-01T11:10:23","date_gmt":"2017-02-01T11:10:23","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/"},"modified":"2018-03-21T22:15:59","modified_gmt":"2018-03-21T22:15:59","slug":"holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/","title":{"rendered":"Holy Roar Records vs Big Scary Monsters: Oxford\u2019s Finest Comes of Age"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/figure>\n<\/p>\n

Back in April 2016, Already Heard<\/b> got Big Scary Monsters<\/b> head honcho Kev Douch<\/b> and Alex Fitzpatrick<\/b> of Holy Roar<\/b> together to discuss the latter\u2019s 10th birthday. Plied with beer in a central London boozer, the discussion turned into a forensic dissection of the music industry and the challenges of running a small label. You can read the two part piece here<\/a> and here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

So, when Kev<\/b> approached us about a return leg \u2013 this time centred on Big Scary Monsters\u2019<\/b> 16th birthday \u2013 we simply couldn\u2019t refuse. And here we are, sat in Brixton\u2019s Ghost Whale<\/a> \u2013 co-owned and managed by Holy Roar<\/b>\u2019s Alex Fitzpatrick<\/b> \u2013 once again peering into the murky innards of indie label life\u2026 <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: So, 16 years\u2026 <\/b>
BSM: I know. Is this a joke about my age? [laughs] <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: No. On a productivity level, you\u2019ve done 16 years and you\u2019re about to hit 200 releases. I\u2019ve done 10 years and I\u2019m on release 183 or 184. Were you completely lazy early on, or did you have other things going on in your life? I was slower at the start too\u2026<\/b>
BSM: Well, it\u2019s quality over quantity [laughs]. No, for the first year or two I didn\u2019t put out a single release. I was just telling people I had a record label, so that skews it initially. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: OK, so of the 16 years, how many would you say are \u2018real\u2019? <\/b>
BSM: I would count it more as our 10th anniversary. We probably only put out 20 or so releases in that first six years. But you know how it is; we put out that first compilation record with \u00a3100, and when we started working with bands and pressing EPs and singles, we\u2019d press one at a time. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Not one copy \u2013 you mean one release? <\/b>
BSM: That\u2019s right, one release at a time. I think one copy is something we\u2019d do these days\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Just to piss people off. I still need to tick of HRR100 \u2013 I haven\u2019t done it, it\u2019s blank. I was thinking of doing a one-off 16\u201d record of my advice on life. <\/b>
\n
BSM: I\u2019ve been looking to do a 17\u201d record for years. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: [laughs] Should we do a split? Your advice on life on the one side, mine on the other. Can we actually do it? One copy for each label. Your face is the cover for the one released on my label, and my face is the one on the cover of your label? <\/b>
BSM: Let\u2019s do it. We haven\u2019t done anything dumb like that in ages. <\/i><\/p>\n

I have actually looked into a 17\u201d record, purely because 17 is my lucky number and I thought it would be funny. I think it was for our 150th release \u2013 and then we never did anything for 150 and just skipped over it.<\/i><\/p>\n

I just love the idea of people buying this fucking big\u2026 I mean, it would look like a New York pizza. And just the thought of people trying to play it. Some record players would, but most people wouldn\u2019t be able to play it. We could put any old shit on there\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Follow us on Spotify for more playlists<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Holy Roar: This feeds into one of my mean question. So, you feel like it\u2019s been real \u2013 or proper \u2013 for 10 years; does the fact that Holy Roar celebrated its 10th anniversary last year \u2013 and we had quite a lot of press, put on a big gig that was successful \u2013 with this whole 200 celebration, are you basically thinking \u2018I want a piece of that\u2019? Or did I give you this great idea? <\/b>
BSM: Honestly, yes and no. What you guys did was great last year, and I think you pulled it off really well (by you, I mean Justine [Jones, Holy Roar<\/b> label assistant]) [laughs]. And I was disappointed I couldn\u2019t come to the HR10 gig, as it sounded like an amazing day with a real community atmosphere. It sounded like a really cool event. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Joking aside, if the HR10 gig had gone to shit, it would have dented my confidence towards the label in a big way. <\/b>
BSM: I was pleased for you. There was definitely a bit of \u2018I\u2019d like to do that too\u2019. But it wasn\u2019t just you, it was Polyvinyl too. They celebrated their 20th and did lots of cool things as well. One of the things, I\u2019d been wanting to do for BSM for years and I\u2019d just started planning it. <\/i><\/p>\n

So, by coincidence one day, I was making a list of bands, just brainstorming what to do for BSM200, and one of the things was to get all of the bands involved and \u2013 it\u2019s kind of an obvious idea \u2013 but to get our bands covering our other bands. So PWR BTTM and Modern Baseball are good friends, and that would be great if they covered each other.<\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: So have you put it together, this compilation? <\/b>
BSM: No. We had just started thinking about it, and we had enough time to get it done, but then, a couple of days later Polyvinyl announced their 20th celebration, which included their bands covering some of their other bands \u2013 and they had a couple of our bands on there too \u2013 so I just thought \u2018ah bollocks, I can\u2019t do that now\u2019, but they did lots of cool stuff. I can\u2019t remember them doing a gig though. <\/i><\/p>\n

So they did one thing, you did another and I think we\u2019ve done something in between.<\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: It looks like you\u2019re doing some cool stuff with the pop-up shop. <\/b>
BSM: It\u2019s actually been a lot of fun. It\u2019s been much harder than I expected. It cancelled Christmas for me\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Doing our 10th anniversary completely dominated our year. I felt like we didn\u2019t have half as much work to do once that gig was done. <\/b>
BSM: I can totally see that coming. I feel for the last week \u2013 and I will for the next 10 days \u2013 that I\u2019m living at a festival. I have this weird feeling that I\u2019m living in a bubble. I haven\u2019t seen the news or any TV, I\u2019m not eating proper food. I\u2019m either commuting, I\u2019m in the shop or I\u2019m off doing interviews, I\u2019m collecting a band from a venue, I\u2019m chasing a courier. There\u2019s always something going on \u2013 and then, when the instore happens, it\u2019s so intense for an hour. When we had Modern Baseball play their in-store, we had people queuing four-and-a-half hours before it started. Which is cool, but it puts a twist on your day\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

“For every success you have, it leads to a new potential and a new challenge.”<\/h1>\n

Holy Roar: It goes back to what we were talking about earlier [before AH arrived], which was every cool thing you do breeds another set of problems \u2013 even if it\u2019s a nice problem. <\/b>
BSM: That\u2019s the thing. For every success you have, it leads to a new potential and a new challenge. That in-store with Modern Baseball went really well, but now I want everything we do over the next week to go even better \u2013 and that\u2019s now the new benchmark. <\/i><\/p>\n

Ric from Tall Ships came in a couple of nights ago to do an in-store, and we went for dinner afterwards and we were talking about their debut album campaign. The night they played XOYO it was sold out and it was such a good night \u2013 probably one of the best things we\u2019d ever done to that point in our careers \u2013 and then I went to a bar around the corner to have a drink with their publisher, and they said \u2018So, what\u2019s next?\u2019 And that question completely ruined my night, because I hadn\u2019t thought about that. It was like \u2018Shit, what do we do next?\u2019 It took me two hours to get home and all the way home I just kept thinking \u2018Well, we\u2019ve got to do Scala next \u2013 but that\u2019s a lot more tickets, we\u2019ve put out the biggest single from the record, we don\u2019t have any new content’, and you lose a bit of excitement once the album is out there.<\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: It\u2019s just the nature of the beast though, as much as you want to fight against it. <\/b>
BSM: Campaigns become harder, definitely. Yet we had to pull 300 people in, and suddenly, instead of enjoying that night, I was already stressing about the next one. But then I wouldn\u2019t change that. If you don\u2019t have that desire to go bigger, you\u2019d quit immediately. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: A couple of things you\u2019ve said there feed nicely into my next question, which is about the whole \u2018what next\u2019? What was the point where you decided, \u2018Fuck these British bands, I\u2019ll just start licencing American ones?\u2019 [laughs]<\/b>
BSM: [laughs] Interesting phrasing on that question\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: OK, to give a nicer spin on it; Did you do a licence for an American band and realise that by doing that you could elevate the label further, while still allowing you to support the British bands that you know and love? Was there one release that you could pinpoint where it made you realise you could open some doors by doing this sort of thing as well? <\/b>
BSM: Yeah, there was. And I didn\u2019t realise it until the other day, when I was doing another interview and was talking about the timeline of the label. It actually fits into two chapters, and the beginning of the second chapter was \u2018Brother\u2019s Blood\u2019 by Kevin Devine. <\/i><\/p>\n

We\u2019d worked with American bands before that, but they were quite small bands and mini-campaigns, really. But that one, when we signed Kevin, he immediately became one of our bigger artists, and when we released the record he was on tour with Brand New doing big venues around the UK. That brought up different challenges that we hadn\u2019t experienced with UK bands.<\/i> <\/p>\n

So, rather than having bands\u2026 we were working with Blakfish at the time, and they just burnt themselves out touring around the UK \u2013 suddenly we didn\u2019t have that a problem as Kevin could only be over in the UK once or twice a year. We\u2019d know he\u2019d be in the UK in July and December, then he\u2019d be off to write an album, and back in the UK the following September. So suddenly we had these focal points for campaigns. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: That must be nice when you know that there will be spurts of seriously hard work, and times when you don\u2019t have to worry about that artist so much because there is another label in another territory dealing with them. <\/b>
BSM: Absolutely. And I think that\u2019s helped me in relation to campaigns \u2013 like I mentioned about that Tall Ships one \u2013 when you\u2019ve gone past the album release and you\u2019ve gone past the singles and you somehow have to try and maintain it. With artists only coming over once or twice, they\u2019re kind of events in themselves, so you can build around those and it gives you impetus without having to force it. <\/i> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

Holy Roar: You\u2019re making me view your label here like the three Hobbit films. So the first film \u2013 the early years in this case \u2013 was bullshit, because there\u2019s like half an hour when they\u2019re singing in the kitchen. Second film, things started to gather pace and it\u2019s pretty good, and the third one is an action slammer. I think you\u2019re in the third phase, post Kevin Devine. <\/b>
BSM: We\u2019re an action slammer. I think Kevin opened a lot of doors. He obviously didn\u2019t intend to \u2013 he was just looking after his own career \u2013 but it was great for us. We\u2019re Kevin\u2019s longest serving label and he\u2019s our longest serving artist.<\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: That\u2019s a great thing. <\/b>
BSM: It is. We\u2019ve done five studio albums, a live album and various singles over eight years. And Kevin\u2019s a nice guy, he\u2019s got a lot of friends and he\u2019s really well respected. And that made it loads easier for me to approach bands after that. When I\u2019d email and say \u2018Hey, I love your band, can I work with you?\u2019, genuinely, so many of them wrote back to say\u2026 like that Touch\u00e9 Amor\u00e9 album you did a few year back\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: \u2026 \u2018To The Beat of a Dead Horse\u2019<\/b>
\n
BSM:<\/i> Yeah. I emailed them a few months before you did it. I emailed them to say \u2018I really like this record, it doesn\u2019t appear to have come out, can I release it?\u2019 Jeremy [Bolm] wrote back to say how much he liked Kevin Devine. And that surprised me, because of how different they are musically. <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Similar worlds though.<\/b>
BSM: True, but at that point it was so new to me, the whole American thing, I was looking at things musically and geographically, rather than scenes that transcend those barriers, and that wasn\u2019t one I was expecting. Like maybe I expected him to say he\u2019d heard the Chariot’s record or something. <\/i><\/p>\n

You know, I don\u2019t even know if I followed that email up. I don\u2019t think I did. Good for Holy Roar though, right? Maybe I wish I had replied. [laughs] But yeah, Kevin opened doors that I never expected \u2013 and he still does to this day. <\/i><\/p>\n

“We\u2019re still small set-ups \u2013 and we\u2019re only just now really beginning to make headway in our own territory.”<\/h1>\n

Holy Roar: You\u2019ve given me another question there, and it\u2019s something we\u2019ve talked about in the past, but you\u2019ve given it a new perspective. You\u2019ve talked about how an American band can only be available in the UK say twice a year for a two\/three week period, so you know when you can work on them, and the structure of that campaign, and you also highlighted a problem with a British band \u2013 Tall Ships in that instance \u2013 where you don\u2019t want to cane the touring schedule (and you mentioned Blakfish there as well, I\u2019m not just picking on Tall Ships), but why are we still not doing the same with British bands as we are with American bands, but in reverse \u2013 ie, why is there still not a huge amount of great British bands \u2013 not huge \u2013 who you can work on and know you won\u2019t have to worry about them for three quarters of the year because they\u2019ll be in Australia, Japan, America? <\/b><\/p>\n

It\u2019s still, to me, a problem and a barrier. To me it\u2019s still infuriating.<\/i>
BSM: Brexit, innit. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: You can\u2019t say that though! <\/b>
BSM: [laughs] No, it\u2019s not Brexit, but it\u2019s not a million miles away. For American bands, their visa to come in costs what, \u00a3100? <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Whereas for us it\u2019s \u00a35,000 once you factored everything in. Which is crazy. <\/b>
BSM: I\u2019ve heard stories of US bands getting to the airport, getting to Heathrow and realising they don\u2019t have a visa, so they ring up the booking agent, stand in the queue and by the time they get to the front, the visa has come through. Whereas for UK bands going to the US\u2026 we applied for one for Gnarwolves three months ahead and it still didn\u2019t come through in time. It\u2019s such a long convoluted process \u2013 and expensive. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Isn\u2019t it a sad state of affairs that it isn\u2019t a level playing field? Why should we carry on supporting British bands if it\u2019s difficult for them to make headway? Unless they get into that infrastructure where their manager also manages Iron Maiden and you can throw money at it. But then, you could throw \u00a310,000 at it and still not make those inroads in America. There is still this big jump\u2026<\/b>
BSM: It\u2019s unfair to put the whole blame on the visa process. We\u2019ve had bands travel without the process. If you go to FEST in Florida, the likelihood is all of the British bands will be there \u2018illegally\u2019. But the other thing is the size and scope of trying to break those territories. We are still \u2013 both of our labels \u2013 we\u2019re still small set-ups \u2013 and we\u2019re only just now really beginning to make headway in our own territory.<\/i><\/p>\n

I have no idea how many times bigger America is than the UK. Say if you wanted to break Employed To Serve over there, they would have to tour a number of times. There would have to be a bit of luck to it as well \u2013 maybe they would have to land a great support slot, which means they make $100\/$150 a night, which means, even if they go without a visa, you\u2019re looking at a debt of at least \u00a35,000. <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: So let\u2019s phrase it another way; Why is it so easy for an American band and an American label to get you on board, when it\u2019s difficult \u2013 still \u2013 for me or you to get an American label or an Australian label on board with one of our bands and basically do what you\u2019re doing? <\/b>
BSM: I think it\u2019s different. In America it\u2019s very \u2018live\u2019 driven, you need to tour and you need to be visible and available. In the UK and Europe it\u2019s a smaller territory and lots of bands are big before they have even played a show. There\u2019s numerous bands who will put a couple of songs online in America, and by the time they play London they\u2019re selling out 3-500 capacity venues.<\/i><\/p>\n

We both work a little bit in Germany, and I\u2019ve been told before that if you want to break Germany, you need to tour. You\u2019re not just doing Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, you have to do the smaller towns too. They want to see a commitment to that territory. Maybe there\u2019s a certain degree of arrogance in it? I dunno. In France, the radio is all taken up by French speaking music so it\u2019s difficult to even get involved.<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: But as a music infrastructure, France isn\u2019t that good. Our bands can tour Italy, Germany, Holland, Scandinavia, but France is continually hard to play more than two shows.<\/b>
BSM: It is. Most of our bands \u2013 we have Beach Slang and Modern Baseball over at the moment\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: And it will be Paris and that\u2019s about it. They\u2019ll all go to Paris exclusively. <\/b>
BSM: Exactly. They\u2019ll all go to Paris exclusively. <\/i> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

Holy Roar: I know it was what you wanted a few years ago, but do you still want someone running BSM USA. Or something along those lines. Do you still want to push into America \u2013 and not just America but Australia and Japan as well? Do you think, with your set-up in the UK and Europe, that you can continue to grow that and carry on working with bigger bands \u2013 and use the bands you work with now to approach even bigger bands \u2013 and be happy with the UK and Europe, and not go through with the infrastructure nightmares that you would go through getting into those territories? <\/b>
BSM: It is still a goal. I think I got it wrong a few years ago by going to go too big too quick. But, since signing US bands here, it has allowed me to get a better understanding of that. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: So is the goal to sign these US bands worldwide? <\/b>
BSM: We have a plan. This year we\u2019ll do a US distribution deal for the first time, and then in 2018 I want to be comfortable with that set-up so we can sign US bands for the US. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: But would that require someone on the ground in America? <\/b>
BSM: We\u2019re talking about this at the moment. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: You could ship out Dave [Owen, BSM label assistant] in a box. Or a coffin. <\/b>
BSM: And that solves two problems right? [laughs] We went to New York last year and had a couple of meetings and have been trying to figure it out. I\u2019ve got some ideas and need to make some calls in the next couple of weeks to start looking into this. We already have a couple of releases that I am 90% sure we\u2019re going to release in America \u2013 we just need to get that set-up in place. So 2017, we\u2019ll start to get actively involved in this, then 2018 will be when we\u2019re better at it. Just like how it was here when we started. That doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019re going to fuck up this year\u2019s releases, I just think we\u2019ll learn from them and improve. <\/i><\/p>\n

But I think it\u2019s an important step for an independent label, as you do hit glass ceilings in the UK and Europe.<\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: And we need labels to push through that every now and then. <\/b>
BSM: Exactly. You look at City Slang. That began as a little label in Berlin \u2013 and yeah, they did some great things early on \u2013 but now they sign bands and they go worldwide. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and feeds back into your own territory, so you become this global, world-renowned thing\u2026<\/b>
BSM: The difficulty is, there\u2019s not too many labels from our scene that have expanded that way. Mostly they\u2019re US coming to us \u2013 look at Run For Cover, Topshelf\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Wichita did it\u2026<\/b>
BSM: Yeah, taking Los Campesinos! and other bands, but I can\u2019t think of too many other labels that started in the same way BSM did \u2013 like I knew nothing \u2013 and have grown to the point where they can look to go to the US. Wichita had the benefit of years of experience with Creation \u2013 and they have more money and experience and they\u2019re better at it than I am. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: You\u2019re right. And it\u2019s rare for that whole DIY model. If you can achieve it when MP3s and now streaming have existed, then even fewer labels would have experienced it. <\/b>
\n
BSM: That feels like it could transition to a question about digital? <\/i> <\/p>\n

“It\u2019s hard to predict their buying patterns because they\u2019re still forming as humans, let alone record buyers and music consumers. I don\u2019t see a change in format coming though.”<\/h1>\n

Holy Roar: I didn\u2019t have anything specific on that, but what do you feel has changed over the last six months \u2013 since we did the last interview? I think that could be applied to digital. I feel like loads has changed, for Holy Roar and the industry. I look at the back end of 2016, the streaming stats have grown and grown and grown, and it has started to be at the expense of MP3s. Obviously, Holy Roar has changed, and I\u2019m now doing this too [gestures to the shop], but how have things changed for BSM? <\/b>BSM: I don\u2019t know if things have changed that much in terms of the MP3s and downloads, but I think it is coming. I remember thinking last year that I thought iTunes would stop selling downloads, but I was jumping the gun a little bit. I think I forgot a little bit that it takes people a while to change their buying habits. So I misjudged it. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: I\u2019m a bit surprised the vinyl thing hasn\u2019t blown over yet. <\/b>
BSM: I feel like there\u2019s almost two generations of vinyl buyers. There\u2019s people our age who have always bought it and\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar:\u2026 The old people<\/b>
BSM: We are the old people! [laughs] But we people buy it because we like the packaging and the artwork and it\u2019s nice. Whereas the 16\/17\/18 year olds, they\u2019re interested in the variants. If we announce a new Modern Baseball record, they want all the variants, and they definitely want the rarest. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: But why? <\/b>
\n
BSM: I think maybe they like to say to their friends \u2018I got this one and you haven\u2019t.\u2019 Older people, like those in their 30s, don\u2019t give a shit, they just like the album. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Does that vapid consumerism spell the slow death of humanity? <\/b>
BSM: Yes. [laughs] I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s interesting what it\u2019ll do for vinyl, but it\u2019s hard to know if people who are 12 will have that same desire when they\u2019re 15, or if they\u2019re 15 now, will they still have that desire when they\u2019re 18. It\u2019s hard to predict their buying patterns because they\u2019re still forming as humans, let alone record buyers and music consumers. I don\u2019t see a change in format coming though. I can\u2019t see a CD resurgence, tapes had its tiny bubble\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: You know, we put out an announcement about the new Brutality Will Prevail record and someone said, \u2018I wish you were putting it out on tape,\u2019 so I said \u2018OK, we\u2019ll do it\u2019. They\u2019re really easy to make. <\/b>
BSM: Five or six releases a year we\u2019ll put on tape, but I think they\u2019re selling for the same reason as the variants \u2013 because who listens to them? Actually, saying that, we sell a few in Groezrock and we\u2019ve had some French and Belgians ask if we have certain releases on tape and they\u2019ll have a boombox with them. <\/i><\/p>\n

“you\u2019ve got to take a risk and spend money to make money”<\/h1>\n

Holy Roar: But the cassettes we have now actually sound pretty good. <\/b><\/p>\n

OK, so what has changed for BSM? Is Dave now full time?<\/b>
BSM: Pretty much. And we have Connor [P Laws] part time, so that has changed. We wouldn\u2019t be doing the pop-up if it was just me, because I wouldn\u2019t have been brave enough to do it on my own, so that has changed. We\u2019re a braver label now. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Do you realise now that the more man hours you\u2019ve got, the more you can achieve? I feel like you resisted that for a long time. <\/b>
BSM: Oh yeah. I got it wrong in that I thought I couldn\u2019t employ someone until I had an annual wage sitting there spare. Which isn\u2019t the case \u2013 you\u2019ve got to take a risk and spend money to make money. We\u2019ve both done it and I\u2019m sure we\u2019ve had sleepless nights about it, as you\u2019re now risking someone else\u2019s livelihood\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: But isn\u2019t that a good thing? It makes you work harder and makes you think about how you can turn those work hours into sales for the label. <\/b>
BSM: And in answer to your question, I think that is the biggest change. We have more hours, so there\u2019s an expectation that it will make more money. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: That feeds into my next question. Do you still think outsourcing your PR and distribution \u2013 as this is where BSM and Holy Roar differ \u2013 is the way to go? We do it all our mail order in-house and 90% of our PR in-house \u2013 but we employ more people in-house to cover that. So you outsource and money goes there to those jobs, whereas we do it all in-house \u2013 do you think either approach is better, or are your opinions changing? <\/b>
BSM: Not sure. Previously I was of the same opinion as you and we did everything in-house. But the reason we don\u2019t do PR in-house is, if we try it, we don\u2019t do it as well, if at all. We have great intentions but it can be difficult to follow it through. So we pay for PR \u2013 but that costs money so you have to be confident in the results. <\/i><\/p>\n

I\u2019m not sure if one is better than the other though. Maybe they work for different people. Currently outsourcing works for us, but what\u2019s to say it will always be the same. I think if you asked me two years ago you\u2019d have got a different answer, and if you asked me four years ago I\u2019d have given you a different answer.<\/i> <\/p>\n

Right now, I\u2019m enjoying not doing the mail ordering. I like that it gets done daily and we don\u2019t touch it as we were terrible when we handled it ourselves.<\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: I feel like we have come full circle now that we\u2019ve brought our mail order back in-house. I think we\u2019re doing it better than ever as people can tell we really give a shit, we\u2019ve got a system that works and we can throw in cool little things, the errors are well down and we get the returns if things are undelivered. <\/b>
\n
BSM: I do miss having that control \u2013 like you can\u2019t throw in little things, but I like not dealing with it. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: That\u2019s where delegation has been a beautiful thing.<\/b>
\n
BSM: I still feel giving someone a job I don\u2019t want to do myself is a bit shit. I need to improve on that. <\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Since the last time we did this, I said at the time I was going to open a beer shop \u2013 and here we are sat in it. But are you bored yet? I said I felt like I needed to diversify to keep feeling excited and fresh about the label because I had somewhere else to park my brain. Do you ever feel like that, and if so what would you diversify into? <\/b>
BSM: Two years ago, I think I was ready to do the label as one of a number of things \u2013 kind of like what you did \u2013 and I was actually trying to think about what I would do. I remember at Christmas two years ago \u2013 so 2015\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: You realised you couldn\u2019t do anything else? [laughs] <\/b>
BSM: I had loads of ideas, came back in January and thought about ways to start extricating myself from the label, yet by March I was full engrossed again. I\u2019m not sure what it was, but it was like an epiphany\u2026<\/i><\/p>\n

Holy Roar: Was this epiphany your bank balance after doing all the American releases? [laughs] <\/b>
\n
BSM: Maybe [laughs]. Nah, I don\u2019t know what it was. I think it was that I realised I should stop being an idiot and accept that this is my job and I actually enjoy it. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: You do love it more than anyone else I know. <\/b>
BSM: I think that\u2019s it. I\u2019ve learnt to accept it and embrace it, and the other things I was worried about, I got over. It all comes down to being in my 30s now. I say this to people all the time now. Ric from Tall Ships is 30 in a couple of days and he\u2019s freaking out about it, but I told him he\u2019s gonna love it. Things get better that day. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Holy Roar: It does. Having this [Ghost Whale] to strive for\u2026 I think I now love Holy Roar more too. But you figure things out a bit more \u2013 as long as you have an idea of what you want to do, you can push on and do it. <\/b>
\n
BSM: That\u2019s it. I think maybe I felt things had stagnated or that I wanted a new challenge, but in fact, there are lots of challenges within my job anyway \u2013 such as expanding in to America. And that\u2019s a huge challenge and I want to have a meaningful crack at it before I give up. And I now have responsibilities too. I have a mortgage and a wife and a dog. It\u2019s not just me being an idiot now. If I give up it doesn\u2019t just affect me. <\/i> <\/p>\n

Big Scary Monsters\u2019<\/b> pop-up shop runs until February 4th at Hackney Downs Studios, London E8 2BT<\/p>\n

Holy Roar Records<\/b> links: Website<\/a>|Facebook<\/a>|Twitter<\/a>|Tumblr<\/a>|YouTube<\/a>|Instagram<\/a><\/p>\n

Big Scary Monsters Records<\/b> links: Website<\/a>|Facebook<\/a>|Twitter<\/a>|Spotify<\/a>|YouTube<\/a>|Bandcamp<\/a><\/p>\n

Acknowledgements: Thanks to Alex Fitzpatrick and Kev Douch for their time.<\/p>\n

Words by Rob Mair (@BobNightMair<\/a>)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Back in April 2016, Already Heard got Big Scary Monsters head honcho Kev Douch and Alex Fitzpatrick of Holy Roar together to discuss the latter\u2019s 10th birthday. Plied with beer in a central London boozer, the discussion turned into a forensic dissection of the music industry and the challenges of running a small label. You […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":12,"featured_media":16076,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[8181],"tags":[2309,62,136,122,94,2310,15022],"class_list":["post-3146","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-post","tag-alex-fitzpatrick","tag-already-heard","tag-big-scary-monsters-records","tag-feature","tag-holy-roar-records","tag-kev-douch","tag-rob-mair"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nHoly Roar Records vs Big Scary Monsters: Oxford\u2019s Finest Comes of Age - Already Heard Staging<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Back in April 2016, Already Heard got Big Scary Monsters head honcho Kev Douch and Alex Fitzpatrick of Holy Roar together to discuss the latter\u2019s 10th\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_GB\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Holy Roar Records vs Big Scary Monsters: Oxford\u2019s Finest Comes of Age - Already Heard Staging\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Back in April 2016, Already Heard got Big Scary Monsters head honcho Kev Douch and Alex Fitzpatrick of Holy Roar together to discuss the latter\u2019s 10th\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Already Heard Staging\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/AlreadyHeard\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-02-01T11:10:23+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2018-03-21T22:15:59+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/tumblr_o6m6373TK61r8no6so1_1280.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Rob Mair\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@alreadyhearduk\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@alreadyhearduk\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Rob Mair\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Estimated reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"27 minutes\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Holy Roar Records vs Big Scary Monsters: Oxford\u2019s Finest Comes of Age - Already Heard Staging","description":"Back in April 2016, Already Heard got Big Scary Monsters head honcho Kev Douch and Alex Fitzpatrick of Holy Roar together to discuss the latter\u2019s 10th","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"og_locale":"en_GB","og_type":"article","og_title":"Holy Roar Records vs Big Scary Monsters: Oxford\u2019s Finest Comes of Age - Already Heard Staging","og_description":"Back in April 2016, Already Heard got Big Scary Monsters head honcho Kev Douch and Alex Fitzpatrick of Holy Roar together to discuss the latter\u2019s 10th","og_url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/","og_site_name":"Already Heard Staging","article_publisher":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/AlreadyHeard\/","article_published_time":"2017-02-01T11:10:23+00:00","article_modified_time":"2018-03-21T22:15:59+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/tumblr_o6m6373TK61r8no6so1_1280.jpg","width":1,"height":1,"type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Rob Mair","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@alreadyhearduk","twitter_site":"@alreadyhearduk","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Rob Mair","Estimated reading time":"27 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/"},"author":{"name":"Rob Mair","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#\/schema\/person\/89b13496eb0786e75bb1c0b15bf71267"},"headline":"Holy Roar Records vs Big Scary Monsters: Oxford\u2019s Finest Comes of Age","datePublished":"2017-02-01T11:10:23+00:00","dateModified":"2018-03-21T22:15:59+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/"},"wordCount":5470,"commentCount":0,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/tumblr_o6m6373TK61r8no6so1_1280.jpg","keywords":["Alex Fitzpatrick","Already Heard","Big Scary Monsters Records","Feature","Holy Roar Records","Kev Douch","Rob Mair"],"articleSection":["Post"],"inLanguage":"en-GB","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/","url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/","name":"Holy Roar Records vs Big Scary Monsters: Oxford\u2019s Finest Comes of Age - Already Heard Staging","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/tumblr_o6m6373TK61r8no6so1_1280.jpg","datePublished":"2017-02-01T11:10:23+00:00","dateModified":"2018-03-21T22:15:59+00:00","description":"Back in April 2016, Already Heard got Big Scary Monsters head honcho Kev Douch and Alex Fitzpatrick of Holy Roar together to discuss the latter\u2019s 10th","inLanguage":"en-GB","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-GB","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/holy-roar-records-vs-big-scary-monsters-oxfords\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/tumblr_o6m6373TK61r8no6so1_1280.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/tumblr_o6m6373TK61r8no6so1_1280.jpg"},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#website","url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/","name":"Already Heard Staging","description":"Covering the best in alternative music as best as we can","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-GB"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#organization","name":"Already Heard","url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-GB","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/AH-relaunch-logo-white-bg.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/AH-relaunch-logo-white-bg.jpg","width":500,"height":500,"caption":"Already Heard"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"},"sameAs":["https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/AlreadyHeard\/","https:\/\/x.com\/alreadyhearduk","https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/alreadyheard\/","https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/already-heard\/","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/AlreadyHeardMusic","https:\/\/tiktok.com\/@alreadyhearduk","https:\/\/www.threads.net\/@alreadyheard"]},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/#\/schema\/person\/89b13496eb0786e75bb1c0b15bf71267","name":"Rob Mair","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-GB","@id":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/e7feccbb8cf9d4de2bea7f0900e02126bcc918e01935cbe6de5ddcb4906a0c8c?s=96&d=mm&r=g","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/e7feccbb8cf9d4de2bea7f0900e02126bcc918e01935cbe6de5ddcb4906a0c8c?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/e7feccbb8cf9d4de2bea7f0900e02126bcc918e01935cbe6de5ddcb4906a0c8c?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Rob Mair"},"url":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/author\/robmair\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3146","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/12"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3146"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3146\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":37177,"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3146\/revisions\/37177"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/16076"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3146"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3146"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alreadyheard.com\/staging\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3146"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}